Alright, now that that I've all the stats for both groups, lets see who got the edges.
Before I begin, I just wanted to let you know that I swapped out two of Jesse's weapons. The Model 1876 has been replaced with the model 1873. As cool as the 1876 is, I think that the 1873 would be a more common weapon for the gang. I also swapped out shotguns, mostly because there's more details available about the Colt then there is the Remington.
Here's how the two gangs will be graded.
Here's how the two gangs will be graded.
Long Range Weapons: /20
Mid-Range Weapons: /15
Short Range Weapons: /15
Special Weapons: /10
Explosive Weapons: /10
Tactics: /20
Training: /15
Morale/Motivation: /15
Combat History: /10
Leadership: /15
The Weapons
Long Range- Winchester Rifle: Model 1873 vs. Thompson Submachine Gun
The model 1873 was a fantastic gun in its day (and it still is), but its outmatched here. When the Outfit actually takes the time to aim their Thompsons, things aren't going to turn out well for Jesse. The firepower just a few Thompsons are capable of putting out will be devastating. Even if the gun doesn't actually hit its target, the sheer number of bullets flying through the air, will make it difficult for the J-Y Gang to hit theirs. The Thompson also has larger rounds (.45 compared to the .40-.44) than the Winchester. It will not only tear through the J-Y Gang, but any poor cover they decide to use. The Winchester does have a few advantages however; its the more accurate of two guns, and it is also has the higher muzzle velocity. (1,100 fps, to 920 fps), which helps slightly to make up for the smaller caliber bullets. The Winchester will be at its best in Jesse's initial ambush, in which they can use their Winchester's accuracy, and their marksmanship skills to inflict some damage on the Outfit. Once the shock of the ambush fades, Capone's boys would close the distance, where could really let loose with their Thompsons. It would be at this point the superior firepower of the Thompson, and the skill Capone's men have at using them, would overwhelm the Winchester.
In the end, this is pretty easy to decide. The Thompson holds way more bullets, is faster to reload, and with so may bullets flying through the air, its going to get more kills.
Edge: The Chicago Outfit
The model 1873 was a fantastic gun in its day (and it still is), but its outmatched here. When the Outfit actually takes the time to aim their Thompsons, things aren't going to turn out well for Jesse. The firepower just a few Thompsons are capable of putting out will be devastating. Even if the gun doesn't actually hit its target, the sheer number of bullets flying through the air, will make it difficult for the J-Y Gang to hit theirs. The Thompson also has larger rounds (.45 compared to the .40-.44) than the Winchester. It will not only tear through the J-Y Gang, but any poor cover they decide to use. The Winchester does have a few advantages however; its the more accurate of two guns, and it is also has the higher muzzle velocity. (1,100 fps, to 920 fps), which helps slightly to make up for the smaller caliber bullets. The Winchester will be at its best in Jesse's initial ambush, in which they can use their Winchester's accuracy, and their marksmanship skills to inflict some damage on the Outfit. Once the shock of the ambush fades, Capone's boys would close the distance, where could really let loose with their Thompsons. It would be at this point the superior firepower of the Thompson, and the skill Capone's men have at using them, would overwhelm the Winchester.
In the end, this is pretty easy to decide. The Thompson holds way more bullets, is faster to reload, and with so may bullets flying through the air, its going to get more kills.
Edge: The Chicago Outfit
Mid-Range- Colt .45 Single Action Army Revolver vs. Colt M1911 Pistol
One of the greatest revolvers ever produced, going up against one of the greatest pistols ever produced, this is going to be one hell of a comparison. The two guns are very similar in many ways. They're both .45 caliber, which means they're going to hit with roughly the same amount of force, although the revolver has a slightly faster muzzle velocity (830 fps to 960 fps), due to its longer barrel. The Colt has a higher effective range as well. Accuracy is the tricky thing, on one hand the J-Y Gang probably has more has more experience with their revolvers, whereas for the Oufit, I feel they're pistol is more of a back-up weapon. However, the pistol has a more modern design, and is accurate up to the full extent of its range, whereas the revolver peters out more in terms of accuracy to its full range, until you would probably be getting your most accurate shots roughly within the range of the pistol. The revolver also has some design flaws; the cartridges were not always of the best quality, causing the gun to jam (although I don't think that this would be a very common occurrence, or else people would've stopped using it). Also reloading the revolver is clumsy and and time consuming, whereas the pistol can be reloaded much faster and smoother. Both have roughly the same number of shots (the pistol's one shot advantage isn't going to make much of a difference in this fight). As far as speed is concerned, the pistol is semi-auto, but the J-Y Gang were probably be pretty quick shots, and in skilled hands, the Colt SAA can be deadly fast. The Colt M1911 will be further hampered in speed by its bulkier design
Overall a very tough edge to give, but I'm giving it to the Colt M1911, for its superior design, reliability, and it managing to roughly match the SAA in accuracy.
Edge: The Chicago Outfit.
Overall a very tough edge to give, but I'm giving it to the Colt M1911, for its superior design, reliability, and it managing to roughly match the SAA in accuracy.
Edge: The Chicago Outfit.
Short Range- Colt Model 1878 Shotgun vs.Winchester Model 1897 Shotgun
Both of these shotguns are 12-gauge, so they are both going to hit with the same amount of power. The Colt may actually have a very slight edge in terms of power, as it can fire two 12-gauge shells at once. But that's about the only edge that the Colt has. The pump action design of the Winchester is better in every way, allowing for a faster rate of fire, and better accuracy. Also, it can hold six rounds, as opposed to the Colt's two, and reloading is much smoother.
Edge: The Chicago Outfit
Special Weapons- Bowie Knife vs. Baseball Bat
This is another really tough weapon edge to give. Both are up-close weapons, which means that they're not going to see much use in this gunfight. The bat has the advantage of length, over the Bowie, which will give it a little more versatility it this fight. It will be able to keep the Bowie at a distance, and is long enough that it could actually block strikes from the knife, if used properly. The Bowie may be better at actually killing though; the sheer size of the knife is going to leave wounds that will probably kill outright, or will at least kill from blood loss. The bat can kill pretty easily as well, but if is doesn't hit the right spot (like the head or the neck), it will only cripple, not kill. Neither side is going to use these weapons with much skill. The baseball bat doesn't require skill to use, and the Outfit probably usually chose smaller and more concealable hand-to-hand combat weapons over the bat. As for the Bowie, the J-Y Gang would have used it as a utility tool first, and as weapon rarely. They would not have been master knife fighters, and none of them posses the skill to throw it.
In the end, it comes down to which weapon is more efficient to carry around in a gunfight. The Bowie is still small enough that it can be tucked away in one of the outlaw's coats when the bullets start flying. Capone's men on the other hand, will have to drop the bat to get a good aim with whatever gun they're carrying, so the edge goes to the Bowie.
Edge: The James-Younger Gang
Explosive Weapons- Dynamite vs. Mk.II Hand Grenade
In terms of sheer explosive power, the dynamite has the greater blast radius than the grenade, but this comes at a price. Dynamite is notoriously unstable; although one well placed bundle of it will be able to take out most of Capone's gang with one blast, they same thing can be said for Jesse's gang. Its hard to place your faith in a weapon that could possibly kill your entire group if you dropped it hard enough. The dynamite also doesn't produce any shrapnel, while the grenade does. This gives the grenade an overall greater killing radius than the dynamite. The grenade is easier to operate as well; pulling a pin is much faster, and simpler, than lighting a fuse.
Edge: The Chicago Outfit
The X-Factors/ Intangibles
Tactics- Both gangs have surprisingly similar quick-strike/raid tactics. Jesse's are honed through years of fighting in the Civil War, and the many robberies that followed after, while Capone's come from the many attacks his gang orchestrated on his rivals, and other targets. With their tactics being so similar, I'm doubting how affective they'll be on each other. Both gangs will want to hit as hard, and as fast as they can, and catch the other off guard. When this happens, it becomes a matter of which gang will break first. This is tough to decide; Capone has the better weaponry for this kind of attack, but the J-Y Gang has the better discipline. The J-Y Gang does have on other edge though, they have a willingness to retreat, reorganize and attack again. As former guerrillas, this tactic is practically burned into their brain. They can wear the Outfit down with repeated strikes. I'm guessing that the Outfit would also be willing to retreat if things got tough, as their attacks were designed to be brief and brutal, but they won't have the same organization that the J-Y Gang would.
Edge: The James-Younger Gang
Training- This is a pretty easy edge to decide. The J-Y Gang's training they picked up with Quantrill is far more formal than that of the Outfit. They would have learned discipline, how to operate as a unit, and how to follow orders. This is going to help them greatly with planning, and executing an ambush, and also retreating and regrouping when they needed to. The little extra- training that some members picked up in the Confederate Army won't hurt either. The only thing they have to worry about is the Gang's undisciplined "add-ons", from after the North Field raid. This still gives them a tremendous advantage over the Outfit though; they learned how to be tough on the streets, but that's mostly it.
Edge: The James Younger Gang
Morale Motivation- This is another tricky one. Both gangs are held together by a tight loyalty; the J-Y Gang to each other, and the Outfit to Capone. Unfortunately, its hard to judge things like loyalty. The J-Y Gang does seem to have some division though. The many groups of families in the gang seem to have stuck closer to each other than to the rest of the gang. For example, after the Northfield Raid, the James and Younger sections of the gang split, possibly over Jesse wanting to kill one of the injured Younger boys. If the Gang splits up when the fighting gets tough, things won't turn out good. Divided, they can't stand up to Capone's superior weaponry. But the gang still has the bond foraged out of fighting in the Civil War together, and I believe them splitting up would be rare. The Outfit probably had too much respect and fear for Capone to abandon him during a fight, but given their lack of training, who knows. As for the final two aspects of this category (hated of Union/ code of silence), I think I can say that neither will be particularly effective in this fight. Unless the James Gang mistakes Capone's boys for well dressed Union soldiers with automatic weapons (and they're not that stupid), their hatred of the North won't particularity make them fight any harder. Neither will the Outfit's code of silence.
Overall, I'm giving the slightest edge to the James-Younger Gang. The loyalty they have for each other gives them a stronger motivator for fighting then Capone's sense of power gives the Outfit.
Edge: The James-Younger Gang
Combat History- Both gangs have a highly impressive combat history behind them. Capone carved out a huge criminal enterprise in Chicago, beating out rival gangs with greater organization and brutality. The James boys have roughly two decades of fighting experience under their belt, ranging from raids on Union troops to robberies. The best quality opponents Capone's men would have faced were fellow criminal organizations, like the North Side, which were very similarly armed and organized. Conflict with groups like these would have made them no stranger to tough fights. The J-Y gang would have gotten their best experience fighting in the Civil War, where they had success fighting against an enemy that was far larger, more organized and better equipped than they could ever hope to be. However I think that the quality of their enemy's really dropped after the war. I don't want to sound like I'm overly bashing the Pinkertons, but their pursuit of the Gang was crap to say the very least. Not to mention they got their asses handed to them by a few farmers during the Northfield Raid. That said, they still proved to be surprisingly tough, skilled and organized, and the money they made speaks for itself.
Overall both gangs are used to "fighting dirty" so to speak, and both have an extremely high amount of experience behind them. While Capone fought a better quality of opponents, the J-Y has a greater number of years behind them. I'm declaring this one a tie
Edge: Even
Leadership- James and Capone are certainly two of the most iconic criminals in American history, but which is the better leader? The Outfit is certainly larger and more organized and complex than the J-Y Gang, and Capone proved to be a surprisingly skilled leader. In many ways he was a politician as well as a mobster, as charming and cunning as he was ruthless. He learned the best the best time to target threats to his organization. These traits however, would be more useful in a gang war then a squad-on-squad fight like this. Although Al probably did have a great deal of combat experience, I don't believe he would have been able to coordinate his gang in the middle of a firefight as well as Jesse would have. As far as loyalty of their gang members in concerned, I'd have to say that they're both equal. Jesse certainly proved himself a leader over more than a decade of robberies, while Capone had both the trust and the respect of his men, as he rose up through the same ranks that they did. Both of these men did have personality flaws though; Jesse could be reckless, and went a little crazy during his final years, while Capone was known for his unstable temper.
Overall my edge goes to Jesse. Although Capone may be the more cunning leader, I believe he may have spent too may years commanding from the sidelines, while Jesse commanded from the front for nearly all his career.
Edge: The James-Younger Gang
That took quite a bit longer than I thought it would, but now this fight is almost done. Only one thing remains, the battle itself...
But before you go, here's a short preview for my next fight:
The movies have given many iconic pshycos, people like Hannibal Lector, Freddy Kruger, and Michel Myers, but the two that are about to face off are in a league of their own.
Edge: The James-Younger Gang
Training- This is a pretty easy edge to decide. The J-Y Gang's training they picked up with Quantrill is far more formal than that of the Outfit. They would have learned discipline, how to operate as a unit, and how to follow orders. This is going to help them greatly with planning, and executing an ambush, and also retreating and regrouping when they needed to. The little extra- training that some members picked up in the Confederate Army won't hurt either. The only thing they have to worry about is the Gang's undisciplined "add-ons", from after the North Field raid. This still gives them a tremendous advantage over the Outfit though; they learned how to be tough on the streets, but that's mostly it.
Edge: The James Younger Gang
Morale Motivation- This is another tricky one. Both gangs are held together by a tight loyalty; the J-Y Gang to each other, and the Outfit to Capone. Unfortunately, its hard to judge things like loyalty. The J-Y Gang does seem to have some division though. The many groups of families in the gang seem to have stuck closer to each other than to the rest of the gang. For example, after the Northfield Raid, the James and Younger sections of the gang split, possibly over Jesse wanting to kill one of the injured Younger boys. If the Gang splits up when the fighting gets tough, things won't turn out good. Divided, they can't stand up to Capone's superior weaponry. But the gang still has the bond foraged out of fighting in the Civil War together, and I believe them splitting up would be rare. The Outfit probably had too much respect and fear for Capone to abandon him during a fight, but given their lack of training, who knows. As for the final two aspects of this category (hated of Union/ code of silence), I think I can say that neither will be particularly effective in this fight. Unless the James Gang mistakes Capone's boys for well dressed Union soldiers with automatic weapons (and they're not that stupid), their hatred of the North won't particularity make them fight any harder. Neither will the Outfit's code of silence.
Overall, I'm giving the slightest edge to the James-Younger Gang. The loyalty they have for each other gives them a stronger motivator for fighting then Capone's sense of power gives the Outfit.
Edge: The James-Younger Gang
Combat History- Both gangs have a highly impressive combat history behind them. Capone carved out a huge criminal enterprise in Chicago, beating out rival gangs with greater organization and brutality. The James boys have roughly two decades of fighting experience under their belt, ranging from raids on Union troops to robberies. The best quality opponents Capone's men would have faced were fellow criminal organizations, like the North Side, which were very similarly armed and organized. Conflict with groups like these would have made them no stranger to tough fights. The J-Y gang would have gotten their best experience fighting in the Civil War, where they had success fighting against an enemy that was far larger, more organized and better equipped than they could ever hope to be. However I think that the quality of their enemy's really dropped after the war. I don't want to sound like I'm overly bashing the Pinkertons, but their pursuit of the Gang was crap to say the very least. Not to mention they got their asses handed to them by a few farmers during the Northfield Raid. That said, they still proved to be surprisingly tough, skilled and organized, and the money they made speaks for itself.
Overall both gangs are used to "fighting dirty" so to speak, and both have an extremely high amount of experience behind them. While Capone fought a better quality of opponents, the J-Y has a greater number of years behind them. I'm declaring this one a tie
Edge: Even
Leadership- James and Capone are certainly two of the most iconic criminals in American history, but which is the better leader? The Outfit is certainly larger and more organized and complex than the J-Y Gang, and Capone proved to be a surprisingly skilled leader. In many ways he was a politician as well as a mobster, as charming and cunning as he was ruthless. He learned the best the best time to target threats to his organization. These traits however, would be more useful in a gang war then a squad-on-squad fight like this. Although Al probably did have a great deal of combat experience, I don't believe he would have been able to coordinate his gang in the middle of a firefight as well as Jesse would have. As far as loyalty of their gang members in concerned, I'd have to say that they're both equal. Jesse certainly proved himself a leader over more than a decade of robberies, while Capone had both the trust and the respect of his men, as he rose up through the same ranks that they did. Both of these men did have personality flaws though; Jesse could be reckless, and went a little crazy during his final years, while Capone was known for his unstable temper.
Overall my edge goes to Jesse. Although Capone may be the more cunning leader, I believe he may have spent too may years commanding from the sidelines, while Jesse commanded from the front for nearly all his career.
Edge: The James-Younger Gang
That took quite a bit longer than I thought it would, but now this fight is almost done. Only one thing remains, the battle itself...
But before you go, here's a short preview for my next fight:
The movies have given many iconic pshycos, people like Hannibal Lector, Freddy Kruger, and Michel Myers, but the two that are about to face off are in a league of their own.
VS
Cold-blooded hit-man Anton Chigruh has never been shy about killing. But even he may have bitten off more than he can chew when he finds himself in the woods of Camp Crystal Lake, going up against the seemingly unstoppable killing machine known as Jason Voorhees. I hope someone brought a bucket, because there's gonna be a lot of blood to clean up ;)
